Today we are large and memorable as we channel chatbots and eat our way through some Distinctive Wide Bags of cookies. Through the roller coaster of hiring and firing we eventually realize the perils of barns before becoming completely spritzed out.
Ultimate Pound Cakes by Phyllis Hoffman DePiano
Matthew's Now but Wow! - Cook Korean! by Robin Ha
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:00
Hi I'm Matthew and I'm Molly and this is spilled milk the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any
Molly 0:10
today we have a particularly long episode.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:13
It was gonna be a real mouthful. Well
Molly 0:15
long episode not a long episode. I'm hopefully not alive, but a long episode title. Today's episode is Nan Milano Pepperidge Farm cookies.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:25
And this was suggested by listener Leon. Thank you listener Leon. And yeah, I think it is gonna be a long episode, because it's gonna be a four hour episode.
Molly 0:33
Oh, I can't wait, buckle up. What better way to spend your whole month of August?
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:40
Exactly. Yeah, this episode comes out August 11. And if you start listening to it when it comes out, you'll be done by the end of the month.
Molly 0:47
I recently finished reading. I think I may have mentioned before that I had been reading a collection of interviews with George Harrison. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I checked it out from the library on the Libby app. So I was reading it as like an e book. And it's 1080 pages long. Wow. I mean, at least on my e reader. Yeah. Anyway, you know, when you finish wasn't either quiet Beatle and well, he you know, he was he was an actively quiet Beatle for decades. Yeah. And so even even over that time, just little dribbles of words came out. Okay. And just were captured in this book. Yes, exactly. It's full of dribbles. Okay. The best part is, toward the end, when I was just kind of, you know, looking at all the like back end stuff on an e reader. Like, it tells you how long it's taken you to read OSHA or whatever.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:39
I love looking at back end stuff. It said
Molly 1:41
something like, you know, this book has taken you like 10 hours and 20 minutes or something. And it said, you know, you have, we estimate that if you read it now, it'll take one more minute. Like, I think I needed to read the acknowledgments or something, and said, but at the rate you've been going, it could take you another week. Like, because it taken me guys, it did take me 12 weeks to get through this book. Sure. So the e reader was like, Well, for most people, it would take one minute, but for you this might
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:14
be a dumbass. Yeah.
Molly 2:15
Anyway, but I did it. I mean, I skimmed a lot of it. Let's be fair.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:19
Did you see this thing? I was gonna say maybe your e reader became sentient and annoying. Did you see this this thing about the Google employee who believed that their AI bot became sentient? No. Oh, this is really funny. It's, it's like a chat bot. And like, you know, it's it's designed to like spit back text like based on stuff you said and stuff from a corpus that's that it's ingested. And it's basically did you ever play with Eliza when you were younger? It's like the original chat bot. Anyway, when you look at like, the the guy got scared that the AI had become sentient, and like, went around telling people this and was suspended from his job for being dumb. And if you look at the transcript, it is just like a like a chatbot that spits stuff back at you from like the 80s. I don't even know what a chat bot is a chat bot if you ever liked den chat support? Yes. So chat bot is when you do chat support and you're not talking to a person you're talking to a computer that's designed to like help figure out what your problem is. So AI and see if you need to get to a person. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So anyway, I thought this was funny, and I told the story really? Well. You sure?
Molly 3:30
Did. i Oh, we got this all I'm rolling on the floor laughing as the acronym ghosts. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:37
Okay. Yeah, I think the chat bot used. That's when the Google guy was like, Wow.
Molly 3:47
Have you considered the fact that I may be a chat bot?
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:51
That's a good point. Oh, wow. I think you just blew my mind fired. Oh,
Molly 3:59
no. I was you know, because you were starting to believe in me.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:02
I know. So I fired you. That's right. Yes, that's right. You don't want anyone to believe in you. i Yeah. I have no faith in you whatsoever. Okay, all right. Go on. Okay, okay. Oh, you want to do like mountain Molano Pepperidge Farm memory lane. Yeah, I'm
Molly 4:17
gonna do it first. Great. As everyone knows, there were tall bags and wide bags, tall
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:21
bags. A wide bag. Yeah. And you don't call them narrow bags and wide bags. They are taller.
Molly 4:27
They're tall. I mean, they are taller. I think of them as being significantly taller. They're actually maybe like an inch and a half
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:34
taller. Yeah, maybe not even that. Wow. No, no, you're right. Okay. Okay.
Molly 4:39
Anyway, I think of them being like, I guess narrow bags and wide bags, or like, like small bags and chunky bags while
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:47
bags and chunky bags or like, why did the show Laura and I were talking about this yesterday and kept saying the phrase wide bags and realize like, wow, this sounds like some kind of like adolescent insult.
Molly 4:59
It really does. has. Anyway I remember being really into the Nantucket me too, which was in the wide bag. Yep. And I see that we're going to be tasting a variation on a Nantucket today but I didn't even
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:13
have the original Nantucket just this double chocolate Nantucket, which sounds good.
Molly 5:17
And the idea of the Nantucket is so it was a bigger cookie, all the ones that were in wide bags tend to be a little a little bigger in area than the narrow bags. Yeah. And the Nantucket is crunchy and has chunks of chocolate. And I remember the chocolate chunks really well. They were like large and memorable. Yeah, no, I like so many white bags. Yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:45
Yeah, a lot of love large and memorable things from the 80s. Would you say the 80s when these came out? I think so. So I gotta say, Well, this is not not memory lane. Well, okay, so memory lane.
Molly 5:56
Wait, I wasn't done. So
Unknown Speaker 5:57
my memory memory lane.
Molly 5:58
Okay. The other thing is, do you remember you probably would have hated this. But there was a type of cookie called a Verona that I jam in the middle. And I think that some people now just call it like, like the thumbprint cookie, but it's not it's not really a thumbprint cookie. It's a Verona it's from the distinctive cookies line.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:18
You can still stick your thumb in it right but oh yeah, distinct like cookies. The tall bags are called the distinctive cookies.
Molly 6:23
Yeah. Anyway, but the thing is the Verona cookies, they always have like a flavored jam in the middle I liked the strawberry thing is is the jam was never very good. It was always kind of gummy, but I like it anyway.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:36
Okay, so despite being a bought you know me so well because I looked at the Verona Apple store and I was like, I don't want this. I know what the Jam Jam looks like. It's gonna be dried up and gummy.
Molly 6:48
It's gummy and dry. But it's so nostalgic.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:51
Okay, well, I'm sorry, I didn't get any but I get a lot of other cookies or other things
Molly 6:55
that are dried up and gummy and nostalgic for you. Oh, like like dry gummy bears. Yeah, like, like stale gummy bear. Do you remember the gummy Coke bottles? Those were always dry?
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:06
Yeah. Kind of like a like a chalky exterior a
Molly 7:10
little bit. A little bit. Yeah. Okay. All right, go on. Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:13
I also remember being into Nantucket and Sausalito is I think Sausalito those are the ones with macadamia nuts like chocolate macadamia nut.
Molly 7:20
Oh, that was the Maui. The Maui definitely ask. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:25
so it seems like it would totally be the Maui because that's where macadamia nuts are from. But I think the Sausalito also has macadamia nuts. We may need to look this up.
Molly 7:33
I feel like the Sausalito should have I don't know like sea sea salt air. Yeah. Erica expensive homes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:44
Okay, I want to Yeah. Expensive Homes in Maui too, right? Yes. Okay, pepper. I'm googling this Pepperidge Farm being Cecil Maui.
Molly 7:54
I mean, I'm just but I'm kind of a Northern California person. Yeah, that's true.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:59
Okay, Maui is crispy milk chocolate coconut almond,
Molly 8:03
macadamia
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:04
macadamia. That's Sausalito. Wow, you don't remember growing up in Northern California the macadamia groves of Sausalito?
Molly 8:12
Do you not remember that? I didn't grow up in Northern California. Well, you
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:16
say a lot of things. You're a bot. Oh,
Molly 8:18
okay. All right. What else were you into?
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:21
So, okay, we're not we're not talking about Milanos I think my favorite non Mulana was Brussels, and I did get some Brussels today. And they're, you know, the Bordeaux cookies that are kind of like thin and rectangular and crunchy. Yes, they
Molly 8:37
kind of look like so the chest the chest men are like shortbread cookies right there.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:42
They're rectangular with like an imprint of like a chest on the top. The board dough was also I think it's maybe the only other rectangular cookie but it had like kind of like a cobblestone is looking and it had maybe like a dimple down the middle. I think it had something in the middle. So for a while they made chocolate topped Bordeaux's. And those were among my favorite. And I noticed I got the chocolate collection here and I think it has Bordeaux sandwich cookies. Oh, I'm really really excited. Yes. Okay, this looks great. And that's about it. So I I'm realizing like just as we're getting started here that like I used to buy the wide bags pretty often, like in the 90s Maybe, but like really haven't gotten them in a long time. And I think it's because they fall into a cookie uncanny valley for me okay, in that there are too much like the kind of cookies that we make at home. Whereas we would never make something like a mulatto Oh
Molly 9:38
my God. Matthew, did you read the agenda that I wrote because you are basically your I didn't think oh, well let's get right down to it because Matthew this distinction that you're talking about Pepperidge Farm designed this distinction and you basically just articulated Wow,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:55
okay, yes. Are they do you think they're gonna hire me? Oh, me. You just fired me from the show. Oh yeah Pepperidge Farm I need I need a job. Like I could be like cookie PR.
Molly 10:05
Yeah, that sounds great. I mean, I think we're already doing cookie. Yeah. Maybe we could get Cambridge farm for this. Yeah, maybe we can actually get paid by Pepperidge Farm. Okay. Okay. So, you know, you're saying I've rehired by. Okay, fine. Okay. It's not very fun doing the show
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:21
alone. That's Jerry. Yeah, this those few minutes were really rough. It was more like seconds.
Molly 10:27
Yeah. Okay. So Matthew, by way of getting around to talking about the cookies. We're going to talk a little bit about the history of Pepperidge Farm because I have to say, I mean, it's not that I dug deep into our Milano episode back whenever that was. But I have to say that when I started doing the research for this episode, none of the Pepperidge Farm history felt familiar to me. So interesting kind of wonder maybe like I didn't do the corporate history.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:51
Maybe we were just like we're eating cookies. We don't need to know the facts.
Molly 10:54
That seems right. Okay, so anyway, I think that people might find this mildly interesting. So Pepperidge Farm was founded in 1937 by Margaret Rudkin, who named the brand after her family's farm in Fairfield, Connecticut, okay, which in turn was named for the Pepperidge tree, which I had never heard of until I started typing this. So it's a tree that is much more common on like the eastern seaboard and into the Midwest, but it's also called a black Tupelo or a black gum tree.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:26
All right, yeah. We were wondering why for the show, Laurie and I this morning, whether it was named for an actual farm, and now it was it is,
Molly 11:32
well, here, here's some more information. So let's talk about Margaret Rudkin for a minute, because I do I think it's not exactly typical of like American corporate culture in the 1930s that a woman should have started a company that became like a multimillion dollar thing, right like it. So Margaret Rudkin, we're gonna get to a part where she was like union busting right? Ah, actually, no, I didn't find that. But maybe maybe we have a listener who is going to going to call it or poke holes in Margaret redkin. I wonder. She's probably already full of holes. Yeah. Okay, she's been dead for a while. Oh, yeah. Yeah, wormholes and stuff. Okay, so Margaret redkin. And I share a birthday. No first name we do. It's true. September 14 1897. Everybody, I'm 125 years old. Wow. I know. Not not 124 years
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:24
old. Yeah, yeah. But soon happy where this is gonna be a big birthday for you. This is your this is your like, carbon Jubilee or something.
Molly 12:35
Thank you. Okay. But anyway, September 14. All right. So, Margaret redkin. myself.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:42
Oh, my ranking myself.
Molly 12:45
It's like Mrs. Comparison. Pictures. Yeah, okay. All right. Anyway, she grew up in Manhattan and learn to cook from her grandmother who began teaching her to make cakes and biscuits. She married a stockbroker. This is where the redkin name came in. I can't remember what her maiden name was. Anyway, she married a stockbroker. They were pretty well off together. They bought land in Fairfield, Connecticut and they called it Pepperidge Farm. All right. Okay. Now, she was inspired to found the company because they had a son named Mark, who had asthma. And apparently he had reactions. Wikipedia was not more specific. Okay. Reactions to ingredients in many processed foods. Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:27
kind of a classic health food kick. Yeah, yeah. And of origin.
Molly 13:31
And so So Margaret's first product was a whole wheat bread, which I guess she was so excited about, because her kid could eat it. And maybe it was really tasty, too, that she offered it to the local doctor who was so enamored with it, that he was like, I'm going to sell this to my patients.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:50
Oh. So then you imagine if you went to the doctor, and the doctor tried to sell you bread, right? It was like, This is
Molly 13:55
what you need to fix all your health problems. It took off, and soon she was selling it throughout her town. And then I guess her husband commuted into New York to work. And he started basically being a bread mule. Okay, yeah. And taking bread into the city, and it took off and get this by the late 1940s. So maybe within 10 years of starting to bake this bread because the company was founded in 1937. Okay, by the late 40s, she had commercial bakery operations in Connecticut, Illinois, and Pennsylvania.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:33
I feel like this is all happening like in the shadow of the Depression, right?
Molly 14:37
Yes. And that's the thing. I mean, even though her family her stockbroker husband was, you know, they, they were relatively insulated from the financial horrors of the Depression, at least compared to most they did sell a lot of stuff from the farm like apples, things like that during the Depression to get by. So I think that, you know, I imagine I have to imagine and that the bread and the bakery stuff was not unrelated.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:03
Yeah, that makes sense. Because I thought like during the Depression, all the stockbrokers jumped out of window.
Molly 15:08
I was gonna say, I mean, I think I maybe hopefully they had enough money stashed in it under the mattress in the bread box in the bread box. Yeah. Anyway, on a trip to Europe in the 1950s, our friend Margaret discovered, quote, unquote, fancy chocolate cookies, okay, that she thought would be wildly popular in the US. So she bought the rights to make and sell them. And this became the distinctive cookies line.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:35
Do you know like, which, what is the fancy cookie that she licensed? You know, I
Molly 15:38
could not find that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:40
I want to know more about this part of the story. No, right? Did she just like call up like some like French bakery and be like, Hi, license your fancy. Here's why would she think that she had to license it?
Molly 15:52
You know, I there's a part of me that one. So admittedly, Guy
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:55
packaged cookies, not like not like bakery cookies. Right. So since you went to Europe and like, tried some fancy packaged cookies,
Molly 16:03
that must be okay. I mean, here we're bumping up against the, the limits of our research, right. I mean, when you research things on Wikipedia, you know, there's some holes that have been poked in markets. But anyway, so according to Wikipedia, the Pepperidge Farm cookies are separated into two lines. All right, distinctive. And farmhouse.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:26
I think it's, it's become three lines. Hold
Molly 16:29
on, we're getting there. So again, according to Wikipedia, so there are two lines distinctive and farmhouse each type of cookie and the distinctive line is named for a European city except the chessmen. There's a city named chessmen. How are you? Sure I'm positive. And the distinctives quote cannot be readily replicated by home bakers. That's true. In contrast, the farmhouse line emphasizes common place cookies,
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:54
okay, but what if you just made some shortbread cookies and like, like, dropped some chess pieces onto them?
Molly 17:00
That sounds distinctive? Yeah. Anyway, the whole idea behind the farmhouse line again, this is according to Wikipedia is that anyone could bake these for themselves in their home but they won't, but they won't because they can buy this said if you look at the Pepperidge Farm website, they've got like four types of cookies that
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:17
yeah, I was on this website yesterday. It's a good website. I think they did a good job with
Molly 17:21
I agree. So there's there's the Milano which is its, it gets its own header on the website. It is a type of cookie now, like not just one of many flavors, it's like its own thing it is. So there's the mulatto, and then there's the farmhouse which they describe so they now describe the farmhouse has thin and crispy, but made with simple pantry and green. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:48
think the ones labeled farmhouse are a new live.
Molly 17:50
I think you're right. I don't know what this Wikipedia thing, wasn't I anyway, we should edit it, we should edit it. And then the third type is chunk cookies. All right. And these tend to have us city and town names. So here we've got the Nantucket we've got Maui. We've got Sausalito.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:08
They're all like seaside or lakeside. Oh, that
Molly 18:11
sounds right. That sounds right. Yeah. And then there's the distinctive line. But when we were kids, so farmhouse didn't exist, right. It was basically just the distinctive line and the like US cities wide bags,
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:26
right? Yeah, no, they're they're the farm houses didn't exist when we were kids. They were they were invented by by Harrison Ford in the movie witness. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. That was a barn raising not of not a farmhouse but there were farm I don't even know the movie you're talking about. Oh, it's really good. It's like I mean, it's probably kind of problematic now. But like, Harrison Ford is is a like cop who goes to solve a murder in the Amish community. And like falls in love and stuff.
Molly 18:56
Did you watch True Detective? No, way too scary for me. Oh, okay. In the first season of True Detective, I think the one with Matthew McConaughey. Like he's incredible in it. I believe there were a lot of barns in that. And like some satanic stuff going on in barns. Yeah. That happens in a lot of barns. Yeah, so clearly that's also where Pepperidge Farm got the inspiration for farmhouse. Oh, some sort of ritual? Yeah, thin and crispy. Do you think they make the stock they keep the soft baked cookie soft the devil. Anyway, anyway, hold on. I just want to wrap up with our with our pal, Margie redkin. So in 1961, she sold the company to the Campbell Soup Company and she became the first woman to serve on its board of directors.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:39
Is it still? No Yeah, it's just as Pepperidge Farm Inc, Norwalk, Connecticut, that can mean anything. Yeah.
Molly 19:45
This I did find a little bit interesting. So in 1963, her book The Margaret redkin Pepperidge Farm cookbook became the first cookbook ever to make the New York Times bestseller
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:56
list. Interesting. Do you think did it have recipes for all the cookies you can't make at home?
Molly 20:00
Oh we should find out we should find out. Anyway. So, you know, there ends my research it really not a lot to say there except actually that was kind of a lot. No, I know it was I learned that I am 124 years old.
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:16
Yeah you you contain multitudes you you've come down to us throughout the centuries you're every woman, it's all in me. You may or may not have pushed your husband out of a window
I think cheese played style. We should start with the farmhouse dinning crispy or the chessmen bow
Molly 20:41
chessmen. Okay, the chessmen because the farmhouse one is it looks a little darker and I think we should start with like a proper shortbread that is what wait the chessmen is supposed to be a shortbread? Yeah, right. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:54
there's a really like sexy curl of butter on the front of this bag.
Molly 21:00
Oh that sexy isn't it? Oh my god. Why
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:03
didn't they write shortbread? Maybe Maybe people are afraid of shortbread. Okay, you got a pawn? Is that a pawn or a bishop? I got a queen. Yeah. How's that? Not a king? King as a plus on top.
Molly 21:16
Can you tell I have never played chess
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:21
Yeah, it's pretty good.
Molly 21:22
Hold on. I'm letting the flavor bloom it's quite a good flavor. Yeah, I think that's a butter flavor.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:31
I don't know kind of it's not nearly as good as like a walker. I was gonna say it's not it doesn't have it doesn't have like that, you know bloomin shortbread. It doesn't have that bloomin onion flavor that we look forward to shortbread.
Molly 21:42
bloomin shortbread was like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:44
like, you take a bite of a good shortbread at first you're like, Okay, this tastes like a cookie and then like the platter of labor really develops as you chew.
Molly 21:52
Also, I think of walk Brett Walker. Walker shortbread as having a better thickness and so a better texture
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:02
for shortbread. I can't be this can't be very thick because it comes in a narrow bag. This is too thin for me. Okay, okay,
Molly 22:08
let's go farm thin
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:09
and crispy butter crisp. I was I was pretty. I found this in a luring package like the term butter crisp.
Molly 22:16
Wait, hold on Matthew. Yeah, so just to be clear. We liked the chessmen. We didn't love them. Yeah, I wouldn't buy them five at a time. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:25
I wouldn't. It's better than no cookie. But not better than many cookies I can think of Yeah. Okay, let's go farmhouse thin and crispy. Now this is a wide bag. And this this flavor is the butter Chris? Yeah, this looks like a ginger snap.
Molly 22:39
Nice hold on the back of the bag says something about about my pal Maggie.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:44
I like this a lot. Oh.
Molly 22:48
Oh, this tastes like a British Flapjack it's got this like, butter. Toasted grain of flapjacks got like oats or something right? Yeah. Flapjack has oats golden syrup. Butter. Oh, this is delicious. Great.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:05
What makes it work? Is that it? Got plenty of salt. Oh,
Molly 23:09
this is a great great cookie. Like yeah, I can't improve upon that. It's got it's got like kind of a toffee flavor. Oh my god it's fantastic. What a superb Wow weird. It has real ingredients in it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:22
Yeah, it says no artificial flavors. toasty brown butter touch a brown sugar real egg.
Molly 23:26
It's straight up tastes like brown butter. Yeah, it's great. A black I give that like a 10 out of 10 Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:33
I want to I want to like withhold but I think I might have to agree. Like yeah, there's a perfect cookie.
Molly 23:38
Don't Don't hold back. Okay, that is wow. Okay, so that's the farmhouse butter crisp.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:44
Yeah, there were several other cookies in the farmhouse series that didn't didn't speak to me as much as butter crisp but I'm now definitely willing to try
Molly 23:51
Oh my god that was fantastic. I'm losing it a little bit over work Harrison Ford. Wow, good job, Maggie.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:59
Okay, where do we go next? I have this chocolate collection that has seven different cookies in it. But should we like do the other bags first?
Molly 24:07
Yeah, okay, we should do the let's do the double chocolate chocolate. Okay, so Matthew was unable to find the regular Nantucket so we've got the double chocolate
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:16
Yeah, I never sent him to do a robot's job. I I feel like chocolate chunk cookies were a real 90s thing Yeah, I
Molly 24:25
feel like it was Oh didn't these used to be bigger I feel like they used to be big or maybe used to be a lot but maybe
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:30
we were smaller
Molly 24:34
I think that the chocolate chunk phase if I had to just guess I think it came from Mrs. Fields.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:39
This is okay.
Molly 24:41
Oh dude, I think this is fantastic.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:43
I think I just I'm not a big fan of of Crunchy chocolate chip cookies. The chocolate chunks are very good.
Molly 24:50
Oh, but isn't the texture this fantastic. But what about the chocolate flavor?
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:55
Either chocolate flavors good. Oh, is this makes me want like a homemade chocolate chunk cookie that's soft.
Molly 25:02
No, I feel like this is fantastic. I'm taking this back home. Oh, that's good. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:09
you're welcome to it.
Molly 25:10
I'm gonna give that a point five.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:13
I guess I started this we're doing scores now. I'm gonna go
Molly 25:17
oh look, it expires just before my 120/5
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:19
I look at that. Five and a half. Oh my god. It's just not a cookie. I'm gonna go back for like, I'm gonna like demolish these farmhouse then and crispy butter Chris I'm just not going to my hand isn't gonna go back into that bag automatically the chocolate chunk Nantucket. Okay, now, this is a cookie. I know. I love it's Brussels dark chocolate.
Molly 25:40
Okay, so this is our first one. Oh, this is the distinctive line. Mm hmm. Now this is like this is heading in the direction of a Florentine
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:51
the like flaky crunch is so right on.
Molly 25:56
My God what a good cookie. Oh, you know I would like more more butter flavor from because the flavor nuts the flavor doing the flavors not doing much.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:07
Like okay, well I'm gonna I'm gonna now complicate our rating system. Or we do this one a 10 for texture and an EIGHT for flavor. Man.
Molly 26:15
I'd give it like a six for flavor. Okay. I don't think the flavor is very good. But the texture is off the chain, bro.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:23
Okay, now we delve into the box. The chocolate collection.
Molly 26:27
Okay. Oh, hold on. Wait. This is like a Whitman sampler. Hold on. Matthew. The back of the box tells us what everything is. Oh, yes. Okay. So I know you got this because I asked you to because it was Geneva's in it. Wait a minute, Matthew there too. That looks similar.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:43
I think they're this oh no, they're
Molly 26:44
the same. Okay. The Geneva has. It's like an oval shaped cookie. It's open faced with chocolate on top and then little bits of pecan.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:55
And it says Pepperidge Farm, like embossed on the bottom of the cookie. Or which I assume he does because the half I have here says EPOR Oh, I
Molly 27:02
think this is a very good. Mm hmm.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:08
Okay, too. I don't necessarily feel like I have to try all of these even. I mean, one of them is a Mallanna that obviously we have to skip because it's the law. I'm very excited to try this this Bordeaux sandwich cookie though. No, no, we're tasting different cookies. This thing. This show just went off the rails.
Molly 27:24
Oh, I liked that thing. Okay, I'm tasting the Brussels.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:29
I'm tasting the Bordeaux sandwich cookie. It's great as predicted. Okay, now I'm gonna try the ole ole. It's kind of the opposite of the Brussels I don't think the texture is quite as good although it's still good labor. Labor is better. Yeah, I would pick this over the Brussels as well.
Molly 27:42
The Bordeaux is the Bordeaux has better flavor than the Brussels.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:47
It's got this great cobbled textures. How would you say? Oh, man, I think I'm gonna stop eating cookies now.
Molly 27:54
Yeah, I'm feeling a little a little cookie it out. That was fast. So there are other ones in this cookie collection. So it's about him the Lisbon which looks like it was like spritzed out, you know? Like us. Springs.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:13
Feeling pretty spreads doubt about now
Molly 28:15
and it's dipped halfway and chocolate. The Leto also looks like a spritz cookie. It's kind of swirled. But and it's a sandwich cookie swirled sandwich. Yeah. Yeah, then there Milanos then there are double dark chocolate. Milanos Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:30
I never think to buy a cookie collection. Because it's really seems like an entertaining sort of thing. And I'm not very entertaining. No, but but like, if someone put this out, just like as a cookie selection at a party you went to I'd be pretty excited. Right?
Molly 28:45
You know, I think that nobody buys cookie collections anymore. Do you ever like the Danish butter cookies that came in the blue tin they still exist. Those were always more delicious than they had to be. And yet nobody pulls those out anymore. I mean, maybe I'm not spending enough time with like senior citizens because maybe I didn't go to the wrong party.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:06
I think I I think I am. I mean, they did have two Pepperidge Farm cookie collections at the store. They did not devote a lot of shelf space to them and they were on the bottom shelf. So I think you're right.
Molly 29:17
I wish these came in a 10 minutes 10 because this came into 10 I would I would buy this all the time. I mean first
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:25
if it came into 10 It would be holiday cookies first of all, because we know that anything that comes out of a 10 is a holiday cookie.
Molly 29:30
What about those Danish butter cookies?
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:32
Those are holiday cookies because we settled this on the on the holiday cookies. Okay, I forgot we got it. We got it on tape. They sold some of these like I wish they sold these these for dough sandwich cookies in a narrow bag and also the Geneva crunchy pecan open face.
Molly 29:50
That's real. It's really good. Do you feel confident that the store you went to was like the right store to go to Did they have a good supply of
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:58
Oh yeah, I think so. And like those things weren't on the website which seemed pretty comprehensive.
Molly 30:04
Oh wait that the regular Geneva's and the Bordeaux's are not on the website. Oh, the
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:08
Geneva's, I don't think they are the Bordeaux's. Yes, but the non chocolate ones oh, what's
Molly 30:15
the point of that? Well, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:16
mean, it's still a good like nubbly crispy cookie.
Molly 30:20
You should just get the farmhouse butter Chris and you just get the farmhouse butter crisp so I gotta say of all of these the farmhouse butter crisp absolutely the best is fantastic. Like if you put that out on a like a tray. People would go nuts over it
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:35
Yeah, no, I'm planning to like just put a couple out on my balcony and see like what kind of wildlife and attracts Yeah, I can't wait to hear about it. Neighbors wolves, coyotes. Yes. Lizards? Yes.
All right. I think I feel like I learned a lot and I want to know more. You know,
Molly 30:53
I feel like my my read on the Brussels versus the Orleans versus the Bordeaux sandwich cookie. I feel cloudy on these three I don't know that I would buy the Brussels again. The texture is wonderful but the flavor was like
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:11
yeah, like I don't know we might have to return to Pepperidge Farm like you know sequel where and taste a couple of these next to Milanos because obviously bolano has become their premier cookie I want to taste a Brussels next to a Milan no because I do feel like the Milan know is a flavorful cookie but maybe I'm just kind of building it up in my mind.
Molly 31:34
I mean, I wonder if if we cheese plated wrong? I mean I feel like the butter Chris was the most flavorful of all of these. No, I think it was maybe except the Geneva because that open face chocolate with the pecans it like starts to melt on contact. It's really good.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:48
Now if they can print stuff on one cookie, why don't they printed on all the cookies so you remember which which cookie are eating? I know why
Molly 31:54
they should print the name on there. Yeah. So then you would know which one to buy again next time. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:59
it doesn't even say Geneva on the bottom of the Geneva it just says Pepperidge Farm. We knew that. Obviously, yeah. Okay, so So our main critique here is like, you need to print more stuff on cookies. Yeah.
Molly 32:10
Yeah. I still hope that the Nantucket is a really solid one. But it does feel a little bit like
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:18
I get that if you like a crispy chocolate chip cookie. That's that's a good example. I don't
Molly 32:22
even think of myself as liking a crispy chocolate chip cookie, but I could see this being a really nice thing to reach for with like a cup of tea or a cup of coffee in the afternoon. Okay, I
Unknown Speaker 32:32
by that. I mean
Molly 32:33
any of them to be fair. Yeah. Should be good for that purpose.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:37
Yeah, we're gonna have a tough time doling these out after the episode. Okay, Matthew,
Molly 32:41
well, do we? I don't know. Do we want to make any sort of grand statement like do we think
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:47
I do. I want to make a grand statement. I stand against the robot AI revolution, and that's why you're fired.
Molly 32:56
Okay, Matthew, are we ready to like go out on a limb and say something crazy. Like do you think Pepperidge Farm cookies are the best packaged cookie?
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:07
That's a good question.
Molly 33:09
And we're holding them up against like Oreos Walker's hon Sandy's Nutter Butters B
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:17
boys cookie joys which I just made up
Molly 33:22
Now remember I'm getting there I feel like I feel like
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:26
malfunctioning I feel like
Molly 33:28
I need to start playing the banjo when you say like crispy Joy's almond boys
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:34
and boys Yeah, I think the best package cookies crispy Joy's almond boy
Molly 33:41
great he settled in.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:44
I think overall Yes. Like I trust Pepperidge Farm as as a brand more than any other cookie brand. Like there was some kind of duds here but nothing terrible like I've tried some Oreo flavors that were awful and I don't know if that really counts because because like Oreo is willing to sandwich anything between a couple of Oreo cookies. But I don't know just just as a matter of like if someone said like, I'm going to bring you a packaged cookie. You can choose the brand but I get to choose the the model you choose to make. I'll choose the model like oh you have your Pepperidge Farm right. Yeah,
Molly 34:19
I also kind of love so the packaging on Pepperidge Farm cookies is really not they have not made modern packaging right and when you blur it doesn't like press and seal it doesn't
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:34
but that's a really good point.
Molly 34:35
I kind of love the just timelessness of it. I mean, these packages have looked this way since we were kids.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:42
Yeah, no, it's it's a packaging where like you know, I'm a very lazy person. So my inclination is like open the package and then just sort of fold the top of our and put it in the in the cupboard which like will lead to like dead stale cookies, like within a couple of days. Yeah. And Pepperidge Farm is not going to help you out. Yeah, like I said, El mulatto is the worst. Really? Yeah, I know this is not the mulatto episode, but yeah still mulatto, like, you just don't want to go on. Like,
Molly 35:09
um, what about like, I know that you have a lot of chip clips. You can't just reach for a chip clip.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:14
I do reach for a chip clip but you put it on your chips. Yes, no, no, I will chip clip these these cookie bags, but I don't. It feels like a lot of extra
Molly 35:22
work. Oh, I'm sorry, Matthew. Okay. Okay. All right,
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:27
so we move on to segments. Let's do All right. Let's begin with spilled mail.
Molly 35:38
Today's spilled mail comes from listener Rochelle, who says Hi, Matthew and Molly. At a recent farmers market. I purchased some cardamom extract. Cardamom is one of my favorite flavors. And I've become obsessed with a cardamom Bundt cake recipe which I'll share diverse shells share this
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:54
as she did share this. Yes, I can. I can put it in the show notes. Great. Okay,
Molly 35:59
so my question is two part. Do you guys know if there's an absolute must own Bundt cake cookbook? And secondly, do you have a favorite but unusual, at least in North America flavor in your sweets. I also wanted to add that I am a longtime subscriber and I recently gave up alcohol altogether. When your alcohol free beer episode aired, I was still in the struggling to admit my alcohol consumption had become problematic stage. So I wanted to ignore that episode because I was still trying to ignore my troubles. I'm three weeks sober today. Oh my gosh, this is fantastic. Yeah, I love it. And that episode is now an important favorite to me. So thank you both. You guys have been faithfully by my side through the hardest times in my life and continue to be there for me as I healed and now embark on my sober journey with love and respect, Rochelle. Isn't that wonderful?
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:49
And yes, I did get permission from Rochelle who said please feel free to read the whole thing because it might be helpful to someone else and I hope it is.
Molly 36:56
Oh my gosh, congratulations on your on your Gosh, you're probably now many more weeks sober than just three because I know we got this email a couple of weeks ago. me anyway. Oh my gosh, this makes me really happy. Ah, thank you. Okay. To answer your question. I don't know of an absolute must own pancake cookbook and wait. Number two? Actually, no, you answer that okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:22
I don't know of a milestone pancake cookbook either but I know someone who does. So
Molly 37:29
is it MOTHER OF THE SHOW Judy Amsterdam
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:31
matzah or motya? If cuz, because it should be pronounced in like a Swedish way. So I asked my mom who is a cookbook expert and and great home Baker what is the best Bundt cake book and she did not hesitate she said it is ultimate pancakes by Phyllis Hoffman to piano which is a great name. And so it's not that book is not entirely bundt cakes but is the best Bundt cake book.
Molly 37:58
Okay, so that's ultimate pancakes by Phyllis Hoffman to piano
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:02
Okay, so let's talk about what is what is a flavor that is still found less often in North American desserts but that you love I have a couple of ideas.
Molly 38:11
Let's see here. You know, I love the flavor of almond extract and like French japonais Yeah, which I think is still you know, well it's not it's not like chocolate chip cookies over here or ginger cookies. I absolutely love it. And then the other thing I would say is I do love a cardamom bun. Oh my gosh, a cardamom bun. Especially sometimes if it has almond paste in it. Oh, that's really good.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:39
Okay, so I'm going to name one that really like everybody loves at this point. But just change my which is salt. Any anything with like flaky crunchy salt in a desert like I'm always there for it. Okay? Whether that's salted caramel, but also but also like salted chocolate or you know, just just any any dessert can be made better with a little like molten flake salt or something like that. The other one that came to mind is quinoa co Have you ever had anything with quinoa co Kena CO is toasted soy bean powder and it's very popular in Japanese desserts. I know you're shocked I'm mentioning something is popular Japanese desserts. And it has Yeah, I thought for sure you were gonna say Macia I just got you know Loacker quadrate teeny Yankees. Yeah, I just got their new Moto flavor and it is so good. Really? Yes. Yeah, I was gonna say you can have one but we just ate seven cookies. Yeah, I can't I can't do it anyway Kena co it's a soybean toasted soybean powder. So it's got a little it's not super sweet in and of itself. And it's got so it's got like a little bit of sweet savory thing going to edge because it's a toasted powder. It has kind of like a like a throaty texture to it that I really enjoy. So like one way you might see it is like like a kind of chewy sweet like a wallaby mochi, something like that, that are regular mochi that's tossed in Kanoko. And okay, like so. So you get this nice light Take like powdery, like toasty warmth before you start chewing and that kind of melts in as you chew really good,
Molly 40:07
huh? Oh, that sounds great. All right,
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:11
thank you listener Rochelle.
Molly 40:12
Matthew, do you have a now but Well, I do
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:23
this is not a new book, but it's new to me. So as you know, because I've mentioned it on the show, pretty much every episode since it happened. There's a new Korean grocery in my neighborhood. It's called M two M they were kind enough to name it after me and Molly. And so I have been trying to do more Korean cooking and like, Korean cooking is not not something that I just kind of like, you know, have the repertoire for yet. And so I've been getting a lot of Korean cookbooks for the library and my favorite by far is cook Korean by Robin ha. And if you if you go online, this book is extremely well reviewed. It is a comic, the the the author is a comic artist who also wrote a really good graphic novel that called I think it's called almost American girl that I really liked. But, but this book is, it is a comic, like a graphic cookbook that has like a recurring character who teaches you how to cook many popular Korean home cooking dishes, and just everything I've made from it has been has been really good and like I just kind of want to cook everything from it and the art is beautiful. What have you made from it? Okay, so made the japchae recipe, okay. And I use like sweet potato sweet potato noodles. Yeah, exactly. And her bulgogi recipe is great. And like I have I have like a bunch of things just like bookmark that I'm planning to make. I want to I want to get more into Korean soups and stews. Do you feel like you're gonna go out and buy this book? Yeah, I'm gonna go out and buy this book. Oh, I
Molly 41:50
think I want this too. I think that this would be a good gift for my spouse. Yeah, perhaps?
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:55
I think I think so. Yeah, just like like the more the more Korean home cooking I do the more I want it. All right. So that's good. Korean by Robin. Ha. Well,
Molly 42:05
our producer is Abby circuit tele. Please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts and you can chat with other spilled milk listeners on Reddit at reddit.com/are/everything spilled milk. Yeah, probably
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:17
some of them are human. Some are bots and probably some are like lovable woodland creatures you just don't know because it's the internet
Molly 42:24
if you put out some if you crumble up some like Pepperidge Farm butter Christmas cookies though like on Reddit. You will get only the finest in humans and AI coming to you to eat your your cookies and chat. All right,
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:40
I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
Molly 42:41
I'm Molly Weisenberg. I'm going to sneeze Oh my God, those cute sneezes Oh, thanks.
Unknown Speaker 42:56
Bye